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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
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Mo 28.07.08 12:19
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Ach so, dass Offset an dem Rad, wo es zu nieder ist, hier also links hinten.
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
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Mo 28.07.08 15:49
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Eine 1:45,6 oder 7 mit diesem Setup. Wenn ich mal alles in einer Runde hinbekommen würde, wäre da bestimmt ne 44er drin.
Man muß dem Otto mit dem Gas und der Bremse in den engen letzten Kurven gut zureden, dann kommt er da auch schon rum. Allerings braucht es erst 1-2 Runden, bis die Reifen dann warm sind. Ach ja, Radical fahr ich mit 360°.
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Mo 28.07.08 16:06
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Ist das jetzt immer noch Silverstone?
Frag nur, da ja heute Daytona dran ist und wohl ähnliche Rundenzeiten gefahren werden, wie es scheint
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
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Mo 28.07.08 16:14
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Ja, aber da ich Daytona nicht habe, fahr ich heute nicht und hab mich auf Silverstone konzentriert.
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
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Mo 28.07.08 16:35
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Ich kopier da jetzt einfach mal hier aus dem iR-Forum rein. Vielleicht kann man es ja in die FAQs schieben 
This guide has been put together from various Guides, Books and internet publications along with my own personal Chassis experience.
If you are interested in having a copy of it in MS Word please PM me with your email address.
Camber
Camber is the inward or outward tilt of the wheel at the top of the tire. Negative camber is the tilt of the top of the tire towards the center of the vehicle.
Positive camber is the tilt of the top of the tire away from the center of the vehicle. Camber adjustments are utilized to help maintain the maximum grip allowable from the surface of the tire through the corners of the track. Proper camber adjustments are very critical for achieving maximum cornering speeds.
Proper camber adjustments are achieved by reading tire temperatures. Read the section on Tire Temperatures for the proper way to decipher what your tires/camber are telling you.
Contact Patch:
When camber is set correctly it allows the entire surface of the tire to adhere to the track thus maximizing the use of the tire contact patch when taking a corner at high speed. On all tracks except road courses you'll want to run with negative camber on the right front & positive camber on the left front. Running camber as such will create part of the pull to left that will help the car get through the corner easier.
The more excessive the cambers the greater the pull can be. Running excessive amounts of camber will cause premature tire wear due to the fact that the tires aren't running on the full contact patch of the racing tire.
As a general rule, the flatter or slower the track the more camber you'll need on both front tires. More positive camber on the left front & more negative camber on the right front would be required at a track like Martinsville over a high speed high banked track like Daytona. Another factor in determining camber is body roll. The more the car "rolls" over through a corner the more negative camber you will need in the RF. Body roll is determined by how stiff your springs & or sway bars are. The stiffer the springs, the less body roll. The less body roll, the less amount of negative camber required in the RF.
When all is said & done, knowing how to read & understand tire temperatures will be the determining factor in how much camber to set in your wheels. In fact it's the only way to properly adjust for correct amounts of camber. Since you must constantly monitor tire temperatures you will always be readjusting camber. Just when you think you have your tire temperatures & camber perfect, you'll change a spring or tire psi to find more speed. All that hard work you spent on achieving those perfect temperatures will have to be thrown out the window & the whole process begins once again.
Keep in mind that adjusting one part of the car & not readjusting camber could be throwing off your original adjustment. Let's just say for example that you didn't take tire temperatures after changing the RF spring & running another 20 laps. Your times are slower after the spring change & you give up on that spring change because it made you slower. Maybe it wasn't the spring change that made you slower it was your camber being off that made you slower. Readjust the camber after running 20 laps with that spring change then decide if that was really the wrong way to go. Did you go faster after making the spring change? No. Did you go faster after making the spring change & camber change? Ah there ya go. Take constant notes of each & every adjustment you make. If it doesn't work, you'll at least know how to set it back to where is was before you started.
Here is a synopsis of how cambers effect the handling of the chassis:
•More negative RF camber allows the car to turn into a corner quicker & will loosen up the chassis.
•Less negative RF camber takes away some of the pull to the left. The car won't turn in as quick into a corner & will tend to tighten the chassis.
•More negative LF camber will reduce the pull to the left while tightening the chassis from the middle out.
•More positive LF camber will increase the pull to the left & allow the car to turn into a corner quicker loosening the chassis.
•More positive camber in the RR will loosen the car from the middle out.
•More negative camber in the LR will loosen the chassis entering a corner.
Caster
Caster is the leaning forward or back of the tire at the top of the wheel. Do not confuse this with camber which is the inward or outward tilt of the wheel at the top. Positive caster is when the wheel is tilted back toward the rear of the vehicle. Negative caster is when the wheel is tilted forward toward the front of the vehicle.
Caster is used to provide directional steering stability.
When thinking of caster, think of a tool box, TV stand, chair, or anything else that has 4 wheels on it that swivel to help you move it across the floor. When you push an object like this across the floor you'll notice that the wheels will swivel back allowing you to push forward with ease. This is positive caster. Now take those 4 swivel wheels & turn them forward 180 degrees. This is negative caster. I'm sure you know how difficult it is to push something with the wheels in this forward or negative position. Besides being difficult to push, it also has a tendency to take off in an unwanted direction until the casters spin in a positive direction.
For the same reasons we want our chair to slide across the floor with ease, we want our race car to do the same. When setting your chassis you'll want to tip the top of the wheels back adding positive caster to provide you with that straight ahead directional stability. There are NO circumstances where negative caster is preferred, even though adjustment range in NASCAR Racing is from -2.0 through +6.0.
Proper caster adjustments will vary with each track & individual driver as well as the steering device you maybe using. (i.e. force feedback) The more positive caster the more feedback you will feel as a driver. More caster can also provide a more difficult steering effort, especially with a force feedback wheel. More positive caster will also give you a better feel for the car. More caster will allow you to make better decisions on the track about how the car is handling.
So why not crank the caster positive as far as it will go? Because too much positive caster also has it's drawbacks. When you turn a car left with positive caster the LF rises while the RF drops. This changes the weight on all 4 corners of the car. In effect you're taking cross weight out of the car the more you turn the wheel. The more positive the caster, the more cross weight there is being removed. The more cross weight you remove the looser the car will get.
In general, you'll want to run higher positive caster settings on a short track with tight corners, over a larger track with long, wide sweeping corners & long straight-aways. +4 to +5 on the RF isn't uncommon for a track like Martinsville. For Daytona a setting of +2 or +3 would be preferred. Higher caster settings allow you to ‘catch’ power slides on exit a little bit easier as well.
Another element that must be considered is the caster split or caster stagger as I like to call it. Caster stagger is simply using different settings on the LF wheel than the RF. When caster settings are different, your steering will tend to pull toward the side with the least amount of caster. On tracks where your only turning left, you would want a higher positive caster setting on the RF than the LF. This more positive caster on the RF will make the car pull to the left entering the turns, which is the preferred setup for entering the corners. The higher the caster stagger you run the easier the car will turn itself into the corner.
Higher stagger will also take some feel out of the car & also force you to hold your wheel to the right down a straightaway.
Caster stagger will also affect braking. If you run too much stagger at tracks that require heavy braking such as Martinsville or the road courses, you may have to add brake bias. Although a better trade-off would be just to even up the caster allowing you to brake harder without causing the car to pull to the side with the least amount of caster.
Caster stagger is NOT the only adjustment that will give you that pull to the left. Many other factors must also be considered. Camber settings, weight balance, tire stagger, tire psi, & track banking also plays an important role. Many newcomers will be uncomfortable with the pull to the left & many may even think that there wheel won't calibrate properly. This pull to the left is normal & is the preferred setup to assist drivers when entering the corners with ease.
Most caster stagger settings will be between 2 & 3 degrees. In other words, if you ran 1 degree positive on the LF, you would run positive 3 or 4 on the RF. In general, tracks that are small & have tight corners will require a higher caster split to help you turn into a corner better.
Caster synopsis:
• More positive caster will loosen the chassis the more the wheel is turned through a corner.
• More positive caster will allow you to catch slides on exit a little easier.
• Caster adjustments are better felt through a force feedback wheel.
• The car will pull to the side with the lower amount of positive caster.
• The higher the caster stagger, the easier the car will turn into a corner.
• The higher the caster stagger, the easier the car will break loose braking into a corner.
• The higher the caster stagger, the less steering effort required. This will tend to give you a loose feeling upon corner entry.
Front Brake Bias
Many people believe that the brakes in a racecar are used for nothing more than slowing or stopping the car. Nothing could be further from the truth. Properly adjusted brakes can improve lap times by allowing you to get into a corner better. All racecars have an adjustment that allows them to control how much brake pressure is allocated towards the front & rear wheels. Front brake bias allows us that same exact adjustment.
When entering a corner 60 to 80% of the weight is transferred to the front of the car. The exact amount depends on the speed of the car, track, corner, & how much brake is applied upon entry. Because of these varying factors more or less front brake needs to be "dialed" into the car. Between the front & rear master cylinders is a balance bar that can be adjusted to allow more or less brake pressure to be applied towards the front when the brake pedal is pushed.
The correct front brake bias setting depends on your driving style & how hard or how much you use your brakes getting into a corner. Since this will vary with each corner at each track, it is important to find the right balance as not to upset the chassis when you apply the brakes while cornering. It is important not to confuse a loose or tight condition upon entry with a front brake bias problem IF your problem doesn't occur when using the brakes. On the other hand, your chassis may not be tight or loose on entry, but because you have the incorrect front brake bias set into the chassis, you're creating a problem when using the brakes.
It is real easy to mask or create an I'll handling car getting into a corner by making a front brake bias adjustment.
The more front brake bias (higher the number) you have set in the car the tighter the car will be on entry. The lower the number the looser the chassis will be. This tight or loose condition from front brake bias will only occur while your on the brakes entering the turn. If your loose entering a corner & are not using the brakes, then you do not have a front brake bias problem. Some may try to add front brake bias to tighten up the chassis going in, but unless your using the brakes going in, changing front brake bias will be useless. Plus the fact remains that you are only masking the problem of the loose condition by trying to compensate with a brake adjustment. You might want to adjust the chassis elsewhere to tighten the car up on entry.
So how do you know when you have the correct amount of front brake bias? I believe the correct brake bias is determined by how the chassis reacts when hitting the brakes hard going into a corner without locking them up. Enter a corner without jerking the wheel hard left & apply 3/4 brakes or as much as possible before lockup occurs. It is important not to steer any more than is necessary. Any added steering inputs can throw off your results due to the added weight transfer that occurs while turning. How did the chassis react? If your back end wants to come around on you, you have too much rear brake & need to add more front brake bias. If your car pushes towards the wall you have too much front brake & need more rear brake. When you can perform this test & the chassis holds a straight line you know you have the proper amount of front brake set into the chassis.
You’ll probably also want to make sure that you’re not using any caster stagger during this test. Once you have the brake bias the way you want it, you can go back and work on the compromise between caster stagger needed for turn-in but not so much it causes you to use to much front brake bias.
Front Brake Bias synopsis:
• More front brake bias will tighten the chassis entering a corner under braking.
• Less front brake bias will loosen the chassis entering a corner under braking.
Front Sway Bar
A sway bar is also known as an anti-roll bar or stabilizer bar. The purpose of a sway bar is to control body roll through a corner. This is done with a bar that connects to both front lower a frames. Without getting to technical, a sway bar acts as a third spring to help balance out weight transfer during cornering.
By changing the diameter of the bar we are able to adjust the amount of roll couple or weight transfer that occurs at the front of the car. Generally speaking, the larger the bar the less the body roll up front. The less the body roll the tighter the car becomes. Therefore the smaller the bar, the more body roll & the looser the car becomes. Fine tuning with sway bars is an easy way to compensate for roll couple or body roll.
Front Sway Bar synopsis:
• The larger the bar the tighter the chassis.
• The smaller the bar the looser the chassis.
Front Toe Out
Front toe out is when the tires are farther apart in the front of the tire than the back. Toe in would be just the opposite. Front toe out is utilized to help prevent tire scrub while cornering. Under no circumstances would you want a toe in condition. The majority of setups usually require a setting of less than 1/16 out. I wouldn't run anything less than 0/16 & no more than 2/16 out max. at any track.
As a general rule, the smaller the track & tighter the turns, the more toe out you may need. Larger radius tracks with long corners would require less toe out. More toe out will help the front end stick entering a corner. Running too much toe out will scrub off speed down the straightaway & create an Understeer condition. A car will run faster with the toe straight. By monitoring tire temperatures you can tell if you have a toe problem with the chassis. Excessive toe out would show higher temperatures on the insides of both front tires. Excessive toe in would show higher temperatures in the outsides of both front tires. Front toe in or out will cause the same feelings to a chassis as excessive amounts of camber & caster, albeit to a much lesser degree.
Front toe out isn't an adjustment that has to be changed or monitored as often as camber. Start with an adjustment of 1/16 & you will be close. Adjust the toe slightly only when the rest of the chassis is real close to being correct.
Front Toe Out synopsis:
• Excessive front toe out will make a car turn slower into a corner, & cause a tight condition.
• Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition.
Ride Height
The chassis ride height is simply the distance measured in inches from the bottom of the frame rails to the ground. This measurement is taken at all 4 corners of the car where the frame rails are lowest to the ground. Usually just behind the front wheels & just in front of the rear wheels. Ride height is adjusted by turning down or up on the shock collar located at each corner of the car on top of each spring. iRacing has limits as to the minimum ground clearance allowed. Ideally you would want to run your chassis as low as possible. The lower your ride height, the lower your center of gravity. The lower the center of gravity, the lower the overall weight is to the ground. The lower the weight the less weight transfer will occur while cornering.
There are a number of criteria that must be considered when adjusting ride height. Those include chassis clearance, spring rates and camber change. These adjustments are built into the chassis itself. Camber can be adjusted at any time & will have to be readjusted after making a ride height change. This is because your camber angles & contact patch of the front tires will change as your car is raised or lowered. Check you tire temperature for proper camber angles. The most important factor we must consider is chassis clearance.
If the ride height is set to low the car may bottom out on the track. This will more likely occur at high speed high banked tracks where the centrifugal forces are higher. If the car bottoms out in the rear you will most likely get loose. Bottoming out up front will result in a push. If you bottom out you can do one of two things. You can raise the ride height or run stiffer springs. Personally I've always believed that lower was better, but I also believe that softer springs are better. On paper, the softer the springs & lower the car, the better off you should be. Again, this theory depends on a lot of other adjustments set within the chassis, so experimentation is the only real answer.
iRacing allows us to adjust the ride height on the LF, LR, & RF, RR. At the LF we are allowed to set the ride height as low as 3.0" & as high as 6.00"(depending on the series). The LF is always the lowest point of the car & probably should always be set at it’s minimum". The higher the front of the car the tighter the car will be.
The LR should be adjusted a half an inch higher than the LF. The RF should be about a half inch higher than the LR. The RR is usually the highest point of the chassis & should be about a half inch higher than the RF Adjusting the ride height effects the way weight is being transferred when cornering. Running a higher LR ride height also puts more weight on the RR. This will cause a loose condition entering the corner. Just the opposite is true when running the higher RR ride height & will create a tight condition upon entry into a corner. By adjusting the split between the LR & RR you will get different degrees of over or understeer.
Another thing you must consider when raising the ride height in the rear is how it affects the aerodynamics of the car. Raising both LR & RR ride heights raises the entire back of the car higher into the air. With that big spoiler running across the back, it will create more drag because it will be catching more wind. This will slow your straightaway speed. With more wind catching the spoiler it will also create more downforce on the back of the car which should allow the back of the car to stick better in the corners. Running a higher ride height may allow a lower spoiler setting. Trial & error will prove worthy here.
Experimentation & accepting the less of all evils should be your goal when adjusting ride height. Springs will play an important rule in determining your overall ride height. In general, the lower the car, the faster the car should be, but possibly at the expense of bottoming out. Give & take will be required in this area.
Ride Height synopsis:
• Too low a ride height could cause the car to bottom out.
• The higher the RF ride height the tighter the car will be.
• The higher the REAR ride heights, the more drag on the straight-aways, but the better the rear will stick in the corners.
• A higher LF will tighten the chassis.
• A higher LR will loosen the chassis.
• A higher RR will tighten the chassis.
Shocks
Shocks are designed to control the up & down movement of the suspension caused by weight transfer as well as bumps. A shock controls the speed at which the spring moves. Without shocks a car would handle like a boat in the water, swaying back & forth while moving up & down. Understanding shocks & how they work will give you a major advantage over those that don't. Controlling the chassis with the proper shocks is the key to getting through a corner smoothly & effortlessly.
Shocks are used to help control handling problems & can even be used to induce desirable handling characteristics.
Of all the questions I am asked regarding setup options, shocks are by far the most asked & most misunderstood of all the setup options available to us. Shocks are a very easy issue to become confused about. At times, too much or too little of the same adjustment on the same shock can produce the same exact results in the chassis. (i.e. it's possible to have a push with a RF shock that is both too stiff or too soft). Such results end up in total confusion as which way is the right way to go with an adjustment. The most important thing to remember regarding shocks, is that the stiffer the shock, the less grip it will have at the corner or end of the chassis.
Shocks do NOT control the amount of weight transfer in a corner. They will however control how quickly the weight is transferred. Shocks used in iRacing are rated from 1 through 5. 1 being very soft while 5 being very stiff. Shocks are numbered for both compression & rebound. The compression of a shock is when it is being pressed down. The rebound is when it is being pulled back up. By adjusting the valving (changing the numbers) within the shock, we are able to change the stiffness or weakness of that shock when it is both compressed & pulled back or rebounded.
When you have a shock that has the same number compression as rebound it is said to be a 50/50 shock. This means that the shock when compressed, has the same resistance when pulled apart. Through adjustment of the shock valves you are able to control how quickly weight is unloaded left to right, & front to rear. By adjusting the valving of each shock you can fine tune your chassis through a corner. Once you understand this concept of how shocks work, you will be able to use that knowledge to turn faster & more consistent laps.
When discussing shock tuning in depth, a basic understanding of dynamic weight transfer and its effect on tire loadings is necessary. Dynamic weight transfer is the transferring of weight from side to side during cornering, from rear to front during deceleration and from front to rear during acceleration. The distribution of weight that transfers is affected by the rates of the springs used in the chassis. Basically, if one of a pair of springs receiving weight is stiffer than the other, the stiff spring receives proportionately more weight than the soft spring. The rate at which a tire is loaded or unloaded during dynamic weight transfer is affected by the compression & rebound of the associated shock.
In rebound, a stiff shock slows down and a soft shock speeds up the unloading process. In compression, a stiff shock slows down and a soft shock speeds up the loading process. However, excessively soft or stiff shocks can produce effects opposite to those stated. Consequently, by changing the stiffness of the shocks used on a race car, we are adjusting the loadings on the tires at different points on the race track. If done correctly, good handling will result.
Now that you understand the compression & rebound of a shock, you must learn how & when they are used while cornering. The easiest way for me to explain when a shock is doing it's most work, is by using an ordinary automobile as an example. Imagine a vehicle going down the highway at 50mph. Now imagine this vehicle slamming on it's brakes. What occurs in the chassis? When you slam on the brakes all the weight is transferred to the front of the vehicle & the nose of the car dives while the back of the car raises up. What are the shocks going through in this state? The front shocks are being compressed & the rear shocks are extending or rebounding. Generally speaking, this is the exact same thing that occurs in a racecar upon entering the corner.
(minus the locking up of the brakes of course) The shocks are going through the same basic process as the regular street car. Therefore if your having troubles getting into the corner, you would adjust the front shocks compression, & or the rear shocks rebound, since that's the stages of the shocks being utilized upon entry into a corner.
Below is a general guide that should assist you in fine tuning your shocks.
SHOCK COMPRESSION:
The stiffer the FRONT shocks, (higher the number) the tighter the car will be when braking.
The softer the FRONT shocks, (lower the number) the looser the car will be when braking.
The stiffer the REAR shocks, (higher the number) the looser the car will be under acceleration.
The softer the REAR shocks, (lower the number) the tighter the car will be under acceleration.
Shock synopsis:
RF
• Higher compression will tighten the chassis entering a corner.
• Lower compression will loosen the chassis entering a corner.
• Overall stiffer RF shock will tighten chassis, weaker will loosen it.
RR
• Higher compression will loosen the chassis accelerating out of a corner.
• Lower compression will tighten the chassis accelerating out of a corner.
• Overall stiffer RR shock will loosen chassis, weaker will tighten it.
LF
• Higher compression will tighten the chassis entering a corner.
• Lower compression will loosen the chassis entering a corner.
• Overall stiffer LF shock will loosen chassis, weaker will tighten it.
LR
• Higher compression will loosen the chassis accelerating out of a corner.
• Lower compression will tighten the chassis accelerating out of a corner.
• Overall stiffer LR shock will tighten chassis, weaker will loosen it.
Asymmetrical changes:
• The stiffer the shock, the less grip that tire will have.
• Stiffer compression on the right shocks will help the car turn in by also slowing weight transfer to the right.
• Softer compression on the rear shocks will tighten the chassis exiting the corner.
• Asymmetrical changes seem to have a greater influence than individual shock changes.
Springs
Four coil springs are located at each corner of the chassis. The springs determine how much weight is transferred to each corner of the car. The springs are mounted in such a way that they can be adjusted up or down to change ride heights. Springs are rated by how many pounds it takes to compress the spring 1". This is done using a special tool called a spring compressor.
The ideal spring combination is one that would produce equal amounts of wheel travel at all four corners of the car. At all ovals, the heaviest weight is being transferred towards the RF upon entry into a corner.
This means the RF corner of the car will travel more requiring a stiffer spring than the other 3 corners. The higher the numbers the stiffer the spring. In iRacing we are allowed spring adjustments at all 4 corners of the chassis. The front springs allow us an adjustment as low as 175 lbs. in 25 lb. increments. The rear springs can be adjusted as low as 175 lbs. in increments of 25 lbs.
An overall softer spring package is usually preferred over a stiffer setup. With a softer setup though, you run the risk of having the car bottom out on the track. This can be cured by using a stiffer sway bar & or raising ride heights. Using softer springs will cause the car to roll over more in the corners. This may require using higher camber angles to compensate for the roll.
In general stiffer front springs will make the car tighter. Stiffer rear springs will loosen the car. Weaker front & rear springs will have just the opposite effect. By changing the spring stagger between the LF & RF as well as the LR & RR, you are able to effect the way the car reacts under acceleration & braking. Spring stagger is the difference in spring rating between the left & right side of the chassis. Running more spring stagger up front, with a weaker left side spring, will tighten the car under acceleration while loosening it under braking. i.e. a 200 LF spring & a 400 RF spring. The greater the difference, the greater the chassis response during these transitions. Running more spring stagger in the rear, with a weaker left side spring, will have just the opposite effect as the front. Instead of tightening the car, it will loosen the car under acceleration & tighten it while braking.
The RF & RR springs change the roll couple distribution of the chassis. A stiffer RF spring will make the car tighter. This is because the the stiffer corner won't accept the body roll & will continue forward creating a push. A stiffer RR spring will have just the opposite effect & create a loose condition. The LF & LR springs effect the chassis by changing the wedge or cross weight in the car. A stiffer LF spring will make a car looser going in & coming out of a turn because it takes wedge out of the car. A stiffer LR spring will tighten the car from the middle, out of a corner because it keeps cross weight in the car.
You'll notice that when making a spring change either stiffer or weaker, it will have the same effect on the chassis as it's diagonal opposite corner. In other words, if you decide to make the RF spring weaker to help loosen the car, you could also make the diagonal opposite corner (LR) weaker to also help loosen the car. In all actuality, what your doing by changing both diagonal corners together, is changing the wedge or cross weight of the chassis. Try to remember the diagonal corners as pairs. And that whatever one pair does, the opposite pair will have the opposite effect.
Using this method makes remembering what spring does what a little easier. In reality then, all you have to remember is what one spring adjustment does, and you should remember how all the others corners are effected.
Let me give you an example. Just remember that a stiffer RF spring equals a tighter condition. Now I know that diagonally a stiffer LR spring also equals a tighter condition. Now a stiffer RR & LF (diagonally) would have just the opposite effect (loose) on the chassis. Now if I have a loose race car, I now know I can try a stiffer RF or LR spring, or a weaker RR or LF spring. All will help to tighten the chassis. I remember all this by simply knowing that a stiffer RF spring equals a tighter race car.
As you can see, it's really easy to get confused over what spring does what & how their strength or weakness effect a chassis while cornering. Let's try to put it in it's simplest form.
Spring synopsis:
• Weaker LF will make the car tight.
• Weaker RR will make the car tight.
• Weaker RF will make the car loose.
• Weaker LR will make the car loose.
• Stiffer RF will make the car tight.
• Stiffer LR will make the car tight.
• Stiffer LF will make the car loose.
• Stiffer RR will make the car loose.
• Overall stiffer front springs will make the car tight.
• Overall stiffer back springs will make the car loose.
• Overall weaker front springs will make the car loose.
• Overall weaker back springs will make the car tight.
• Increasing front spring stagger will tighten the car under acceleration & loosen it under braking.
• Increasing rear spring stagger will loosen the car under acceleration & tighten it under braking. (This will become more apparent as the RF tire wears and may cause the chassis to snap lose in the latter stages of a run)
Track Bar
The track bar or panhard bar as I like to call it, is simply a bar that is mounted behind the rearend that keeps the rearend from moving from side to side while cornering. The left side of this bar is mounted to the rearend, while the right side is mounted to the frame. Both of these mounts are adjustable up & down & change the rear roll center of the car. Rear roll center directly effects the body roll experienced in the car.
Within the sim we are allowed to lower the bar in inches. This measurement in inches is simply telling you how far off the ground the track bar is located. Raising the track bar raises the rear roll center & thus loosens up the car. Lowering the track bar lowers the rear roll center & will tighten up the car.
Track Bar synopsis:
• Raising the bar loosens the chassis.
• Lowering the bar tightens the chassis.
Wedge
Wedge is also known as cross weight or diagonal weight. Wedge is the total weight of the RF & LR corners divided by the cars total weight. Wedge is used to keep the back of the car tight entering a corner while also adding bite exiting a corner.
The total amount of wedge required depends on track size & roll couple in the car. A setup that will spin it's tires easily will require more wedge to counter act the traction loss under power. A setup with a higher gear ratio or one that does not spin the tires will require less wedge. Wedge is required to get through the corners. Excessive amounts of wedge can slow the car down & wear the RF & LR tires prematurely.
Changing the wedge is done by screwing up or down on the shock collar located over the RF & LR springs. You might think that by changing wedge you would change left side or front bias, but that isn't the case. No matter how you adjust the wedge the left & front bias will always remain the same. Increasing wedge will tighten the chassis. Decreasing wedge will loosen the chassis.
Wedge synopsis:
• Increasing wedge tightens the chassis.
• Decreasing wedge loosens the chassis.
Tire Pressure
Tires are the most important component on a race car. You can have the fastest engine
or the best possible setup, but if you don't have a set of tires between you & the track, everything else is meaningless. In fact, every single thing you adjust on a race car is for the benefit of the tires. All these adjustments that I've discussed in this guide are all about trying to achieve the best possible grip from the tires to the track. If you have the best grip at all 4 wheels, then you'll have the fastest car on the track.
Tire pressure is yet another adjustment that will aid you in achieving the best possible grip. Tire pressure is simply how much air you have in a tire. The hotter tires get, the more they expand. Air contains moisture. Moisture becomes steam as the air gets hot & increases pressure. WC teams actually don't use air in their tires they use nitrogen. Nitrogen is preferred over air because it doesn't expand as much with temperature changes because it doesn't contain moisture. Since it's impossible to remove all the moisture from a tire, it will still change pressure as temperatures rises.
This can be noted after running a test session & checking your tires both hot & cold. When tires expand it changes the size of the tire which in turn changes the weight on that wheel. This can be either a negative or positive situation depending on your chassis needs.
Tire pressures can be adjusted on all 4 tires. Improper tire pressure can cause an ill handling car. Correct tire pressure can be determined by reading tire temperatures. A tire with a temperature reading higher in the center of a tire indicates an over inflated tire.
A tire with a lower center temperature, when compared to the inside & outside of a tire indicates a under inflated tire. Over inflated tires will have a tendency to make the car tight. Under inflation can slightly loosen a chassis but give better grip. Lower tire pressure will also increase the amount of heat in that tire. Excessively low tire pressure produces more heat which can result in quicker wear. Higher pressure tires run cooler, have less drag & will be quicker at higher speeds.
One thing to keep in mind when dealing with tire pressures, is that your also changing the weight of the car on the corner your lowering or raising pressure at. By raising or lowering pressure your changing the ride height of the chassis. Changing the ride height adds or subtracts weight from that corner of the chassis. So tire pressure actually reacts like a spring. Adding more tire pressure makes that corner of the chassis a little stiffer. Lowering tire pressure will tend to make that corner of the car softer.
Tire psi synopsis:
• Higher psi in RF will loosen the car.
• Lower psi in the RF will tighten the car.
• Higher psi in RR will loosen the car.
• Lower psi in the RR will tighten the car.
• Higher psi in the LR will tighten the car from the middle out.
• Lower psi in the LR will loosen the car from the middle out.
• Higher psi in the LF will tighten the car.
• Lower psi in the LF will loosen the car.
• The lower the psi in a tire the hotter it will run.
• The higher the psi in a tire the colder it will run.
• Excessively low front tire psi will create a push.
• Excessively low rear tire psi will create a loose condition.
Tire pressure allows us to fine tune the chassis. Drastic pressures changes at various corners of the chassis could produce less than desirable results. Keep an eye on tire temperatures. Although your changing the weight on each tire with tire pressure, your changing it to a much lesser degree than with a spring change. If you know & understand how springs work, you'll be that much further ahead when understanding how tire pressure changes effect the chassis.
Stagger
Stagger is a direct adjustment iRacing. Stagger is the circumference of the right side tires compared to the left side tires. The best way I can describe stagger is by using a white Styrofoam coffee cup. You know, the kind that is bigger around on the top than on the bottom. Take that cup & lay it over on it's side on a table. Now push it along the table letting it roll. You see how it turns in one direction. This is stagger.
Imagine the top or larger side of the cup as the right side tires on a race car. Imagine the bottom or smaller side of the cup as the left side tires. See how it turns left? Stagger on a race car works the same exact way. By adding stagger to the chassis we are allowing the car to turn left better through a corner especially under acceleration.
• Increasing the rear stagger is helping the car to turn in the middle of a corner.
• Decreasing the front stagger will help the car turn into the corner better
Tire Temperatures
When I talk about the inside of each tire, I'm referring to the edge closest to the brake rotors or inside of the car. When I refer to the outside edge of each tire, I'm referring to those edges that are furthest from the brake rotors. Tires are marked within iRacing as O for outside, M for middle, & I for inside.
I previously mentioned that every adjustment we attempt to make on a racecar, is an attempt to try an maximize the grip of each tire. By taking tire temperatures of each tire we can "read" how well our chassis is performing. A good tire man can tell how a racecar is handling without ever watching it perform on the track & without even talking to the driver. Tire temperatures are the only scientific proof we have of how a chassis is working. It's easy for a driver to misinterpret how a car is handling. Tire temperatures eliminate that mystery by telling us which corner of the car is over or under worked.
Tire temperatures are taken with a tool called a tire pyrometer. This tool is inserted into the tire on the inside, middle, & outside of each tire to give us readings across the surface of the tire. By comparing tire temperatures across the surface of the front tires we are able to tell if we have proper camber angles, proper toe, proper weight distribution, as well as proper tire inflation. By reading the average temperature of the RF & comparing it to the average temperature of the RR we can tell if the chassis is loose or tight. Comparing diagonal averages indicate the proper amount of wedge in the chassis.
The optimal tire temperatures should be in a range of 190 to 240 degrees. Keep in mind that the hotter the tire the quicker it will wear out. It's important to realize what the outside & inside of each tire is. The inside of each tire is the edge closest to the brake rotors or inside of the car. The outside edge of each tire are those edges that are furthest from the brake rotors.
On a short track it is normal for the outside edge of the RF tire & the inside edge of the LF to be 5 to 10 degrees cooler. This is because of the way the tires travel down the straightaway. On a larger track with longer straights, this spread will be even further. On an oval, the RF tire will have more negative camber, thus resulting in the inside edge of the tire contacting the track more than the outside edge giving you the higher temperature. On the LF you will run with more positive camber, so just the opposite holds true. While cornering these temperatures should even out if you have the correct amounts of camber & or weight transfer. The more camber you run, the higher these spreads will be.
On a small track were you spend a lot of time cornering, you'll find the spread not as high. This is because your spending more time cornering than on the straights, thus distributing the temperatures across the face of the tire more evenly. If you try to achieve even temps across the tire you may develop a push. This is telling you that you have too much positive camber. Although the tire may be flat on the track, on a straightaway, the tire will not be flat on the track while cornering.
By comparing the average temperature of all four tires you can see which corner of the chassis is working harder than the other. To figure the average temperature of a tire, add the 3 temps across the tire & divide by three. If your RF is a lot hotter than the other three tires your probably pushing because the RF is doing too much work. Work on cooling that tire off by lowering the RF spring and allowing the other tires to share some of the work load. By comparing the RF average to the RR average you can tell if the chassis is loose or tight. The RF should be about 10 degrees hotter than the RR. If it's higher your probably pushing. If it's lower your loose. A tire is being under worked when it's temperature is a lot lower than the other three tires. When a tire is cooler or under worked, try concentrating on that corner of the car. Try adding weight to that corner of the car to increase the temperature of that tire. If a tire is a lot hotter than the other 3 work on making that tire cooler.
It's also informative to compare right & left side, front & rear, as well as diagonal averages. To see if you have the proper wedge, average the RF & LR tires & compare them to the two front averages & two right side averages. Your diagonal average should be 5 to 10 degrees cooler than both the front & right side averages. If it is warmer you have too much cross weight. If it's cooler then you need more cross weight or wedge.
The best way to decipher tire temperatures is to run 10 laps on a particular setup & monitor tire temps. Don't expect to learn everything reading the temps only once. It will take a number of 10 lap sessions to sort everything out that is going on with the tires. When analyzing tire temperatures it should be done in a specific order. This is because a problem in one area may mask a problem in another area. Here is what I do.
1. Run 10 laps, adjust front cambers. Run another 10 laps.
2. Adjust tire psi. Run 10 laps.
3. Adjust toe if needed. Run 10 laps.
4. Adjust wedge. Run 10 laps..
5. Adjust for tight or loose condition based on RF & RR average. Run 10 laps.
6. Look for overheated or overworked tire. Adjust on that corner. Run 10 laps.
7. Repeat the process all over again. Run 10 more laps.
When checking tire temperatures it is important to make sure your not locking up the brakes or making any sudden changes in your steering outputs. These will all create erroneous tire temperatures readings. Let me try to simplify how to read tire temperatures by giving you this guideline.
• A tire with too much NEGATIVE camber will show an excessively higher temperature at the INSIDE edges.
• A tire with too much POSITIVE camber will show an excessively higher temperature at the OUTSIDE edges.
• A tire that is OVER inflated will have a higher middle temperature than the inside & outside edges.
• A tire that is UNDER inflated will have a lower middle temperature than the inside & outside edges.
• A car with too much toe OUT will show higher temperatures on both INSIDE edges of the front tires.
• A car with too much toe IN will show higher temperatures on both OUTSIDE edges of the front tires.
• A RF tire that is HOTTER by more than 10 degrees over the RR indicates a tight condition.
• A RF tire that is COLDER by more than 10 degrees over the RR indicates a loose condition.
• A tire with the HIGHEST average temperature is the corner of the car that is being most worked.
• A tire with the LOWEST average temperature is the corner of the car that is being least worked.
• A RF & LR diagonal average that is the same or higher than the front & right side average indicates too much wedge.
• A RF & LR diagonal average that is more than 10 degrees lower than the front & right side average indicates not enough wedge.
Let me reiterate once again that the results you see may vary. Using these guidelines will give you a better idea of what your trying to achieve & should get you in the ball park of a quicker more stable setup.
Lets look at a few examples.
RF
I----M----O
208--202--194
Indicates too much negative camber.
RF
I----M----O
194--202--208
Indicates too much positive camber.
RF
I----M----O
204--188--197
Indicates an under inflated tire.
RF
I----M----O
204--210--197
Indicates an over inflated tire.
RF
I----M----O
204--198--194
Indicates correct camber. Overall average temp is 198.6.
RR
I----M----O
227--225--223
Overall average temp. is 225.
If the RR & RF temp above came off the same car we would have a very loose racecar. The RR is approximately 26 degrees hotter than the RF. If this RR is also the hottest tire on the car, it indicates the RR is doing the majority of the work in the corners. This is the corner of the chassis I would work on. We need to take some weight of this corner to cool this tire. I'd start by going with a weaker RR spring. This should cool this tire & tighten up the chassis.
RF
I----M----O
215--192--186
Outside edge is too cool indicating we need more positive camber. Average temp. is 197.6. Let's compare this with the RR below taken on the same car.
RR
I----M----O
190--188--186
Average temp. is 188. This tire is 10 degrees cooler than the RF indicating a neutral handling chassis. This should be good, but we could be faster with a camber change on the RF. Let's adjust the camber on the RF, run another 10 laps & take temps again below.
RF
I----M----O
200--195--190
Camber looks much better now. The average temp is 195.
RR
I----M----O
192--190--188
Average temp. is 190, but now when we compare the average of the RF & RR we find our temperatures too close to each other. After the camber adjustment we no longer have a neutral handling car, but one that is now on the verge of becoming loose. Your general feeling may be that the camber change made the handling worse, and it very well may of. But were still heading in the proper direction. You may have to take a step backwards at 1st to take 2 steps forward later. We can now work on increasing the temp of the RF or work on cooling the RR to increase our average split between the RF & RR. To increase the heat in the RF try a stiffer spring. To decrease the heat in the RR try a weaker spring. Either way you will make the car tighter. How much of a change depends on how much it changes your tire temps. Run another 10 laps & review your temperatures again. Eventually you should be faster than your neutral handling setup with improper camber in the RF.
As you can see from the above example there isn't always an immediate cure. Chassis setup is sort of like solving a puzzle. Experiment & learn as you test. Always keep in mind that you may be going the correct way, but there could be an adjustment elsewhere that may be masking your initial change. Because of this chassis setup can become very frustrating for the novice and experienced alike. For every change you believe your making for the better, it will have an adverse effect elsewhere in the chassis. If for example your car feels great going into & through the middle of a corner, but is loose on exit, you have to tighten it up somehow. Curing the loose condition exiting the corner now has probably messed up your chassis going into the turn. Now you must loosen it up again. It's a constant battle of give & take. Hopefully by monitoring tire temperatures you can eliminate some of the mystery of how & why a chassis is reacting like it does.
Tire Temperature synopsis:
• Optimal temp range is between 190-240 degrees.
• The hotter the tire the quicker it will wear.
• The hottest tire on the car is the tire that is being worked the most. The coolest tire is the least worked.
• Work on the corner of the chassis that is either the most overworked or least worked 1st.
• A tire with too much NEGATIVE camber will show an excessively higher temperature at the INSIDE edges.
• A tire with too much POSITIVE camber will show an excessively higher temperature at the OUTSIDE edges.
• A tire that is OVER inflated will have a higher middle temperature than the inside & outside edges.
• A tire that is UNDER inflated will have a lower middle temperature than the inside & outside edges.
• A car with too much toe OUT will show higher temperatures on both INSIDE edges of the front tires.
• A car with too much toe IN will show higher temperatures on both OUTSIDE edges of the front tires.
• A RF tire that is HOTTER by more than 10 degrees over the RR indicates a tight condition.
• A RF tire that is COLDER by more than 10 degrees over the RR indicates a loose condition.
• A tire with the HIGHEST average temperature is the corner of the car that is being most worked.
• A tire with the LOWEST average temperature is the corner of the car that is being least worked.
• A RF & LR diagonal average that is the same or higher than the front & right side average indicates too much wedge.
• A RF & LR diagonal average that is more than 10 degrees lower than the front & right side average indicates not enough wedge.
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Mo 28.07.08 16:53
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ja hatte das auch schon gesehen, aber das Ding ist sooo elends lang, das ichs erst gelassen hab.
Müsste man eigentlich etwas anpassen, auch die Einheiten, hier 2/16 weniger, kann ich zB. nix mit anfangen
Die sollen endlich das metrische System einführen 
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Beiträge: 4139
Wohnort: Münsterland
Geburtstag: 15.09.1968
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Mo 28.07.08 17:05
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Kann man das letzte Sir-Set auch für Daytona verwenden?
Heidewitzka!!!!
Was für Zeiten.
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
Gesperrt
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Mo 28.07.08 17:29
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| Modde hat Folgendes geschrieben |
Kann man das letzte Sir-Set auch für Daytona verwenden?
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Dürfte nichts dagegen sprechen. Einfach mal probieren.
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Mo 28.07.08 17:47
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Man, egal was ich mache, ich hab so Probleme nach S/Z vom Oval ins Infield, aber erst ende des Bremsvorgangs, wenn man wieder anfängt fast Gas zu geben in etwa, geht das Heck immer weg, schon geschraubt und geschraubt, na mal gucken, vll. was extremeres probieren da.
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Beiträge: 4139
Wohnort: Münsterland
Geburtstag: 15.09.1968
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Di 29.07.08 19:39
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Hat jemand von Euch schon ein Infinion-Long Set für den Skippy nächste Woche?
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
Gesperrt
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Di 29.07.08 21:42
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Da gibts nichts zum einstellen.....
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Beiträge: 4139
Wohnort: Münsterland
Geburtstag: 15.09.1968
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Di 29.07.08 22:02
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Beiträge: 5912
Geburtstag: älter+als+Du.
Gesperrt
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Di 29.07.08 23:03
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Nö, das einzige Luftdruck und Höhe des Autos vorne...
Ach doch, Stabi hinten, da bin ich runter auf 2. Alles andere kann nich nicht fahren.
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Mi 30.07.08 2:02
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Do 31.07.08 14:21
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hi, auf der infineon cup bin ich mit dem huttu set gefahren von der team redline seite (link vom ersten posting hier). habe gestern bisschen die neue streckenvariante für nächste woche getestet, denke das set funkt auch hier ganz gut. pb derzeit bei 1:48 niedrig. der skip barber ist aber imho ein eigenes kapitel
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Sa 02.08.08 22:32
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Hab auch nochmal bissl an den wenigen Schrauben gedreht
Herausgekommen sind 2 Sets:
(zeiten sind bei mir in etwa identisch, komme so auf hohe 1:48er
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| von mir, etwas stabiler in Grenzsituationen |
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So 03.08.08 3:25
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danke thomas,
bin mal auf dein v1 set umgestiegen und hab damit die erste quali erfolgreich beendet. fährt sich sehr schön
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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So 03.08.08 5:03
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bin um 3.30 zuhause gewesen, dachte, och fahr mal eben die neue Combo ................... lief einigermaßen, 9 Inc's, der hat mir nen Carcontact angerechnet in der 1. Lap, da hab ich nur nix von mitbekommen  ............ immerhin gabs ein paar iR-Points
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So 03.08.08 7:06
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ich hab leider gemerkt das es doch nich so toll ist mit dem netcode, habe ständig einen ping von 166 (ok geht noch) aber wenn ich dann wirklich mal dicht hinter jemandem bin und er bremst ist da keine chance zu reagieren, da machts einfach plötzlich bum und dann ist es schon zu spät um auf die bremse zu drücken.. ist mir bisher 2x passiert... die einzigsten beiden male wo ich wirklich mal dicht hinter jemandem war. das geht da bei lfs ganz anders... die letzen runden mit florian waren echt cool
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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So 03.08.08 12:59
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Hab ich eigentlich nicht so erlebt, selbst beim Radical nicht.
Den 166er Ping gibt das Game wieder, irgendwas davon hat iRacingStuff mal im Forum geschrieben, das der Wert im Game etwas nach oben abweicht, vom tatsächlichen, ca 10%
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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So 03.08.08 16:20
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@Michael, wie fährst du denn schon wieder 
Sag mal, wie fährst du die Kuppen an bei Kurven, zB. T2, da hab ich oft Probleme, die anderen gehen eigentlich.
Hab manchmal das Gefühl, schneller geht besser
Nee, ich meine relativ früh bremsen und früh aufs gas an der Stelle???
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So 03.08.08 18:27
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t2, die erste rechts? früh bremsen ist relativ weil du den skippy eigentlich sehr schnell runterbremsen kannst. aber wichtig auf jeden fall früh aufs gas ja. ganz links gerade auf den curbs anbremsen und dann eng um die kurve ziehen mit zunehmendem gas. muss beim rauskommen fast immer ruhig gegenlenken um gerade zu bleiben. man kann, muss aber hier nicht unbedingt über die curbs fahren.
an deiner aussage "schneller gehts besser" ist auf jeden fall etwas dran, denn wenn du in kurvenlage vom gas gehst wird er wesentlich instabiler als wenn du immer ein bisschen oben bist. das merkt man sehr gut an t3+ über den hügel, in dieser passage solltest du zB kein einziges mal komplett vom gas. ich habe das gefühl den skippy fährt man in erster linie mit den pedalen
es wird aber nicht lange dauern dann stehen da 46 in der quali liste, da habe ich aber nichts mitzureden
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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So 03.08.08 19:48
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Hm, ja hab ich mir schon so gedacht alles, kriege da wohl keine Kontinuität rein, mal so mal so.
Na mal gucken, was noch so geht
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Beiträge: 4139
Wohnort: Münsterland
Geburtstag: 15.09.1968
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Mo 04.08.08 8:49
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Mein erstes Rennen im Skippy war eine einzige Katastrophe.
Was für ein Rum-ge-eiere von allen - mich einbezogen.
Direkt am Start knallt mir einer rein - dann dreht sich noch einer vor mir und rauscht ebenfalls in mich rein .... ordentlich INCs gesammelt und am Ende noch schön iRatings an andere verteilt :X
Na ja, hoffe mal, dass das besser wird. Der Skippy ist echt krass zu fahren - man ist irgendwie nur am rumpaddeln - das Wheel könnte man quasi auch abschrauben, damit lenkt man eh nicht
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Beiträge: 1887
Wohnort: ut freesland bünn ick
Geburtstag: 03.02.1970
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Mo 04.08.08 10:02
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1. Post im Setup-Thread aktualisiert!!!!
----
Ich hab Glück gehabt, 1x 4. und einmal gewonnen, aber wieder mal ein schwaches Feld erwischt, Pole > Finish
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